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Re: Back here again

P. J.
Dear Overmind,

Let me answer you here.
I’m not bothered so much about the Victor part of the whole thing. Personally I’m convinced it was just plain paranoia, wrong conclusions, communication breakdown and hasty actions on both sides. Hired by TPTB? You can’t possibly write that with a straight face. Yes, they don’t like us. They write like idiots. But they are not idiots. I really am not concerned with what happened between admins and Victor. Both sides messed up big time. I don’t believe in secret agents, I’ve seen situations like this too many times. In fact, I don’t care about it at all.
However, I’m really, REALLY astonished seeing this witchhunt, all this blaming and insults Adam got from you just for trying to be objective, for hearing both sides and presenting evidence on a neutral place. You put Victor’s words in his mouth and then attacked him. But he just silently presented Victor’s side, without commentary, and was waiting for evidence from your side. That’s what objective is: to abstain from any personal preferences. All he got was insults.
I certainly don’t like demanding the faith and loyalty. And I hate that „We will most likely ask you to leave the forums“ you wrote to Adam. It’s basically the „You can’t come to play at our beach anymore, we’ve seen you talking to the one who destroyed our castle made of sand“. Very small minded and childish. That shows the real mentality and atmosphere of this site. That shows the measure of your faith and loyalty to people who don’t immediately agree with you. That’s a sign of blind fanaticism and egoticism.
I don’t like blind fanaticism and egoticism.
I differ greatly with many of Adam’s opinions on many things, in fact, I’m complete opposite. Yet I respect him, because I understand his point of view, even if I disagree with him. You know, „I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write“ (Voltaire and E. B. Hall), and Voltaire really isn’t my favourite thinker.
You said you don’t care if Adam will come back. That shows you really don’t care much about people who don’t bow to you. You want to even go after him and try to make him banned. He can’t be trusted? But he can, he can be trusted that he will be objective no matter what. And he is objective – you know, when you look at the middle from the left, it seems to be on the right. When you look at the middle from the right, it seems to be on the left. But it happens just in your head – from your point of view.
In this case, I don’t think you care I’ll come back, and I too certainly can’t be trusted by your meaning of the word. And where I don’t see this kind of care and this kind of trust... well, go figure. I don’t know Webmaster and Victor much, I like A4L and consider him a friend, and I was starting to like you... but your behaviour towards Adam has alienated me.
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Re: Back here again

Overmind One
Banned User
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Re: Back here again

P. J.
Overmind One wrote
I am VERY concerned with it, because part of "what happened" involved forging fake emails designed to pit us against each other. My Subversion review was altered significantly on June 2nd, and Victor altered it. I wasnt even out of seclusion yet! YES, it matters to me and to the other Admins, just as it should matter. To you, perhaps not as much.  I cant think of a reason why he would do such a thing...the email he sent me which was supposed to have been from the Webmaster was racist and told me to have sex with my mother. It called me a "baboon" as well.
As I said, I really am not concerned with what happened between admins and Victor. That's between them, you, the people involved. People I don't know. I don't have enough information. I'm not the judge. I merely observe.

He doesn't HAVE both sides. He went to print with only Victor's fabrications, and went as far as posting screenshots. We have them too! The only COLD HARD EVIDENCE of foul play came from Victor. From altering my review to banning the Webmaster and Atlantis4Life. And I have the horrible theories he printed about me and his speculations...what the hell does he think I am? Why attack without provocation, and the nature of the changes he made make the entire site look bad!
He doesn't have both sides, because you didn't present your side at the time. He asked you for your side several times. He went to print with only Victor's fabrications, because that was what he had at the time. If you see that as his fault, or better, betrayal, there I cannot help you.

If you are here to defend Adam, feel free. But sine you also dont have both sides of the story, that makes you as reactive as he was. I wont take the bait. I dont need to argue facts, and when the facts need to be presented (and they will be) they will.
I certainly wasn't sent to defend him. I'm here on my own, from my decision, and I don't like what I see. And I see plain injustice.
I have both sides of a story within a story, the one where you attacked Adam for presenting Victor's side. You didn't attack him for presenting Victor's side and denying you to present yours. You could react in commentaries (as you did) and Adam has said everybody is free to send him a blogpost and he will post everything. Again, I repeat he asked you for your side. Those are the facts, upon those I reacted, and there's no bait.

I don't give a damn about story about Victor, because I don't have facts. I do give a damn about story about Adam, because I do have facts. That's the only thing why I decided to confront a person with undeniably faulty reasoning, a person who was emotionally disappointed that someone isn't automatically on his side (who in fact wasn't on any side), and started argument ad hominem – you.

Adam BETRAYED me. He betrayed this site and its members and its very purpose. He did it out of....something emotional perhaps? An old grudge with Atlantis4Life? He jumped the gun and unlike you my value system has LOYALTY and TRUSTWORTHINESS right at the top. I dont know about you, but to me this place is where I come to talk and laugh about how much SGU sucks. I dont need or want the drama, the betrayal or the useless finger pointing.
You could say Albert Einstein betrayed you and it would have the same informational value. Adam did no such a thing. See above.
In my value system, the truth is above everything else, it's ultimate. And thus I don't take it lightly and throw it around, filter it with colored glass, bathe it in the mud and out of hurt feelings blame everything and everyone. I'm loyal and trusting beyond your comprehension. But when I see injustice and fault, loyalty and trust go aside. And I see you are unjust and wrong about Adam. I was there the whole time, I got it first hand, and at the time I was unbiased. When I saw injustice and fault, I took side. Just this one side just in this little conflict where you blame Adam for ridiculous things.
You are the one who do the drama and useless finger pointing, not Adam.

TRUE there were mistakes on both sides, but none of us banned any of them. How does Victor reconcile his banning of the people who have paid money and donated time and effort to this place? I have spent my own money on it. So have others. Hours of work. Ill not have traitors in my midst.  Victor BANNED the Webmaster, me and Atlantis4Life, whilst the header proudly proclaiming "SGU Sucks Uncensored Forums!" was at the top of every page.

Blind defense of people is unwise. Neither you or him know the full truth, but Adam has already published his views. He made the bed, so.....
Again, I'm not talking about Victor, I don't care about him. Do what you need to do. I don't have nor want any say in that situation. I talk about Adam and your emotional outbursts.
You see blind defense, I saw blind attack. I don't say I know the full truth, neither does Adam, that's why he already published Victor's views (not Adam's) and asked you for your side. However, I know the full truth about the little story about you attacking Adam for that. But you already made your mind, so...
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Re: Back here again

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by Rac80
Rac80 wrote
the pig is in charge!!!! did any of you guys ever read "Animal Farm"??? do remember what the pigs did???

JK JK I love the pig as much as anyone else...he will do a great job (as long as he bathes)

I too just want to see the forums move forward.  i will admit I worry about putting so many "explanations" out in the open and airing our dirty laundry...it may cause this group to be taken less seriously.  We know we were taken seriously (...even the great JMozz hates us!) and I would like that to be the case when season two airs in the fall. But you guys do what you think is best for your forum.  
He will do a great job!!!!  I hand-picked him to be moderator, and I've worked with him in the forums for months  - He is truly an AWESOME GUY!!!!  Very loyal (that's a big one for me), honest, hardworking, logical...  He'll do well as an Admin.  Yeah, Piggy's great!!!

One the "explenations" (sic) part of it.  Yeah, Rac!!  I'm with you sooooo much to the point where I think Victor shouldn't have posted his long missive (lies and all) in the first place.  "Speaking up" is one thing, but telling some grand story is another...  But, the admins can't just take what he said laying down.  We can't just "chat" about it behind the scenes.  It has to be addressed.

I don't like having to post screen shots of private emails (and I have plenty of them) because they were just that - private.  I don't do things like that, but when people force your hand through their actions...

The whole "Atlantis 'staged' and argument" thing is ridiculous... Now I have to decided exactly how much I'm going to say, and what screen shots I'm going to show.  There were about 6-8 things that I wanted to address... After thinking about it more, I've dropped that down to about 4 because like I said, I don't really want to have to go into this, but when people force you...

And just so you know, I don't hate Victor.  I never did.  

But, something happened to him when he thought Overmind was coming back.  He really had a bit of a meltdown.  You don't have to just take my word for this, because even Victor said in his long missive that everything was fine and there were no real problems until "Overmind" showed up.  He just didn't mention that he was the one having the problems....

And you saw from my screen shot of a real email I sent to Victor in June, that I told him that Overmind could come back, and if he did that they would need to work together...  I don't hate Adam either. However, in spite of my best efforts to work with him, it always failed because he wasn't all that willing... You'll have to ask him why because I'm clueless about that.

I'll post more later when I have the time.  I'll just address my part because Overmind and the webmaster will speak for themselves...

Atlantis.  

                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Back here again

Leo(T.C.K.)
In reply to this post by P. J.
Well, I am taking side of Overmind here, while Adam may not have real intentions or be betrayer, what he did wasn't really good. But after all he is a more of a 4chan user or something and you can't expect much decency from that. So he will always be a more provocative, no matter to who.

I have seen the proof here and it is clear that Overmind is speaking truth, even though truth isn't that black and white. And I am interested in what happened prior to this because it is all connected, yet you say P.J., that you don't care what happened. But where is logic in that?

In your value system, the truth is ultimate (that sounds so cliched), you might as well recheck that system. Because after all where is the truth in this?

As I said in my previous post, I said that Adam just might have been confused, but Overmind provided a clear enough explanation and I can't help but agree with him.
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Re: Back here again

Robbie_Rocket_Pants
I don't think of it so much as a case of taking sides, I just want the site & the community to get back to normal & for us, including Victor, Adam Tm, P.J............ & some other wiener (can't remember who it was) who posted saying all the arguing was upsetting so wouldn't be coming back, to be united against SGU.  I think we need people here with differing views, not necessarily antagonists/SGU lovers but definitely people who's value systems differ but still hate SGU with a passion.  I for one want to get back to normality & nip this bitching at one another in the bud once & for all.
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall............... Mr Mallozzi.
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Re: Back here again

Leo(T.C.K.)
I think it is impossible that we will get along with Victor again after what has happened....
It's like that thing with SGU, like they suddenly get along without explanation etc...
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Re: Back here again

P. J.
In reply to this post by Leo(T.C.K.)
I don't take "what he did wasn't really good" as a valid argument. Decency, provocative? What's undecent or provocative in opening both eyes, listening with both ears to both sides? His only fault seems to be he published Victor's side first. That's the only thing I could find, from all points of view.

Where's logic in that you care what happened and I don't? I don't know, maybe we are different, or maybe you should try and learn a bit about rhetorics. But to answer to what you probably meant: You don't need any logic to see that I'm tired of all this, but I hate to see clear, indisputable injustice.

Who are you to judge somebody else's value system? Who are you to recommend a recheck, when you don't even point out what is (in your opinion) wrong about it? What do you know of clichés and truth, of éthos and its different manifestations, youngster? You are too quick to judge. You have that in common with Overmind.

Overmind providing clear enough explanation doesn't relate to him attacking Adam. Those are separate matters. If you don't perceive them as such, then end of the discussion; I won't lose further time with people who don't know how to conduct a proper discourse.






To everybody: This is becoming circulus vitiosus, the discussion repeats itself as all participants make their points again and again ad nauseam. I've said all I wanted to say. It's all there to understand; or not to understand.
Good luck with further criticizing the SGU and good bye.
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Re: Back here again

Rac80
In reply to this post by Robbie_Rocket_Pants
Robbie_Rocket_Pants wrote
I don't think of it so much as a case of taking sides, I just want the site & the community to get back to normal & for us, including Victor, Adam Tm, P.J............ & some other wiener (can't remember who it was) who posted saying all the arguing was upsetting so wouldn't be coming back, to be united against SGU.  I think we need people here with differing views, not necessarily antagonists/SGU lovers but definitely people who's value systems differ but still hate SGU with a passion.  I for one want to get back to normality & nip this bitching at one another in the bud once & for all.
I agree robbie, SGU and TPTB are the enemy...not ourselves.  i have confidence it will all cool down and be back to normal soon. *goes to make the popcorn....*
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Re: Back here again

US06154
Hear, Hear, and a hearty Huzzah for that! *goes to melt some butter and grated cheese product to go with the popcorn* (I'll agree with anyone who has popcorn )
Original comment posted, analyzed and commented at SGUSucks.com. The One, and the only True Forum where we agree that SGU.. Just Sucks
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Re: Back here again

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by P. J.
Hey P. J.,

My position in all of this from the beginning has been one of being caught in the middle. For the benefit of others, I won't say exactly all of how this is the case.

I know that you weren't talking to me with your responses, but there are just a few things that you said that I am going to answer for and about myself:

P. J. wrote
I certainly don’t like demanding the faith and loyalty.
Neither do I.  I'm not saying that anyone has, I'm just saying that I never expect loyalty from everyone and that I an agree with you on that.  It's impossible.  The real mentality and atmosphere of this site, from my understanding, was that it is supposed to be a place where people can honestly talk about SGU whether they like it or not.  Obviously since this is SGUsucks.com, we're a little biased in our opinions of the show.  Okay, maybe a lot.  

I just want to get back to some semblance of normalcy here.

P. J. wrote
I differ greatly with many of Adam’s opinions on many things, in fact, I’m complete opposite. Yet I respect him, because I understand his point of view, even if I disagree with him.
I'm the complete opposite as well.  However, I can't respect the fact that he left out the most important part of my post to Victor in the phpBB forums that Victor deleted.  

To me, when Adam recounted my post and edited out the part of my post that he knew Victor didn't like it looked to me like he was helping Victor say something about me that isn't true.  Victor wasn't telling the truth when he called all of us liars.  I never lied to Victor, and he knows that.  

When I said I was caught in the middle, here's an example of how:  Victor wanted me to open up a separate website with him shortly after the vBulletin forums went down and we hadn't heard from Overmind.  He knew that I was not the webmaster when he contacted me.  So, that part in his long missive is a lie. He conveniently left out the part where his first contact with me about sgusucks was his proposal to get me to leave sgusucks.com in the dust and to start an sgusucks.net site with him! And, I have the screen shot of the email he sent me below, so you don't have to take my word for it that he made this proposal.



He wanted me to work on a site with him, and to leave this site.  I replied to him and told him that it was a nice offer, but no, I wasn't going to leave this site just to start another sgusucks site because I did not want to leave this site, and I didn't want to be a webmaster.  I told him that if he wanted to help out, then he needed to help out with this website and that he would need to include the webmaster, and overmind if he ever decided to come back.  He understood that those were the terms, and he accepted them...

There's a lot more to this story, but this is enough to prove that I was caught in the middle, and that I'm not just making this up for dramatic effect...  I am caught in the middle in more ways than one, and for the benefit of others, I'll leave it at that... If you have questions about what I've said, then please let me know.

P. J. wrote
...I like A4L and consider him a friend...
Thanks, P. J.  That means a lot to me.  I've tried a lot over these past months to make everyone here feel like they are welcome, and a part of the group.  I consider you, and anyone else who wants it, to be a friend of mine as well.  

Hopefully, when this is all sorted out, we can get back to the fun of the forums again - securely backed up forums.  Like everybody else, I don't want to deal with something like this again.  

I've never done this before, but I'm going to check into getting additional web hosting for the site (if the webmaster wants it), just so if anything should happen, we will for sure have a back up.  Overmind has been very generous in making sure that the domain names are secure and in being willing to host the forums again with additional back ups.  

Cheers,

Atlantis


UPDATE

It looks like I missed you.  I didn't read you other post until just now.  I replied to you in a word doc that's been open since early this morning...  Well, I've said about as much as I'm willing to say on this subject as well.  I just want the site to get back to normal, and I'm working with the other Admins to make that the case.  You're welcome to join when we get the new forums back up.

@Everybody

There was a lot more work to do than we thought, so I can't promise that the forums will be back up tomorrow - but we'll give updates if that won't be the case.

Thanks everyone!!!

Atlantis.
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Back here again

maunu
Wow!! Whats been happening here.  It looks like the place has turned into SGU, how ironic. Bitching, insults, back stabbing and lots of pissing matches.  I don't know any of you so I'm not goning take any sides. I left GW to get away from petty squabbling, but its just as bad here but more vitriolic.  I've no idea whose in the wrong here, seems both sides have acted rather inappropriately and IMO most of this should have been kept to PM.  Airing all our dirty laundry can't really do much for our cause, which was to express how much we hated SGU, but now it seems that the behaviour on SGU is being re-inacted here.

Is it possible to get back to discussing our dislike of SGU and leave all the drama and histrionics behind.
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Re: Back here again

Mitchelluva
I believe its good to get this all out of the air and we'll be back to normal when the new forums sets up. You'll have to understand, a lot has happened over the last 48 hours.
"I wouldn't say any stargate is better than no stargate at all because this isn't the stargate that we all know and love"
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Re: Back here again

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by maunu
Wow indeed, Mauno!!!

I agree that none of this should have to be made public.  I much prefer private conversations for private matters.  

However since, like you said, you haven't been here.  You don't know that I have had to respond to an old Admin (Victor/Technician) and the hissy fit he threw over the webmaster letting him go as an Admin.  It's quite an unbelieveable situation for sure!

There was no back-stabbing done on my part, and I've shown that if you pay attention to whole story, and read my post.


I hate that it's come to this because someone got more access to the website than they should have had.  

You can trust for sure that SGU is nothing like my daily life, and this is a kind of drama that I have not dealt with before, thank goodness, and that I'm not interested in dealing with again.



                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Back here again

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by Mitchelluva
Mitchelluva wrote
I believe its good to get this all out of the air and we'll be back to normal when the new forums sets up. You'll have to understand, a lot has happened over the last 48 hours.

Exactly!  Because of an Ex-Admin that had a meltdown and behaved inappropriately, we now have to go through what he said to point out where he was lying.  

When someone insults your character, you have a right to defend yourself!  That's not SGU; that's life!
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Back here again

TelepathicPebble
In reply to this post by Atlantis4Life
So...looks as if Adam took down his SGU sucks video...that's a shame.

But if you guys wanna put up something in the meantime...like a protest video that'd be cool....Could always use one of mine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw5u9tmN1eU *wink wink* lol it shows a lot of negativity the fanbase has toward SGU....if that's not exactly your fancy then be on the look out for my new SGU sucks video....coming soon. I promise I won't hold back with the SGU characters being bloodied up


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Re: Back here again

Deity
In reply to this post by Robbie_Rocket_Pants
Robbie_Rocket_Pants wrote
& some other wiener (can't remember who it was) who posted saying all the arguing was upsetting so wouldn't be coming back
Man are you talkin' about me?  I think you are and I am totally insulted.  That wiener crack is beyond the pale, and I'm going to get my mother to come on here and tell you what's what.  WAIT, forget that, I will just get her to blog about it and give you the verbal thrashing you so richly deserve.  I would do this myself but all you fans are obviously beneath me.  Also I am too busy trying to earn money at my new job so I can buy a fancy house for the ones I love.  Geez, what's next, death threats?


P.S.  Any similarities between my response and Certain SGU actors is purely coincidental.
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Re: Back here again

Vanb
In reply to this post by TelepathicPebble
That's a good video,TP, but I really like your other one: Stargate Universe FAIL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKXrpcN_mI0

That song is perfect, and the edits with all guns 'a' blazin' are great.  Fan videos, or in this case protest videos, are great.  So creative.  
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Re: Back here again

Overmind One
Banned User
In reply to this post by Deity
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Re: Back here again

Robbie_Rocket_Pants
In reply to this post by Deity
I'm not sure mate, I can't see any posts on this nabble forum that would indicate that, but there may have been some on the short-lived forum which is no more (thank you Victor).
Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall............... Mr Mallozzi.
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