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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Atlantis4Life
US06154 wrote
So let me get this straight. They Started out by Ditching Atlantis to do something Totally Different to Atlantis/SG1. Now that it looks like shit has hit the fan, they want to make it "more like Atlantis/SG1" ? All those "Teasers" from Jo-Jo the dog faced boy's blog, is nothing but "I'm a begging you, on my bended knees, please watch our show, because it'll defrost your fridge, clean your car, give you a boner and walk your dog, and all of that within the first 5 minutes of Episode 11"
LMAO.  Don't forget his episodes (he's a big self-promoter) Space and the 2-Fart finale.  LOL.
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Atlantis4Life
Okay, Kobe.  I did it.  And, here's the full post just in case he doesn't approve it or does something funny with it:
____________________________________________________________

Mr. Mallozzi:

I am going to take a chance at posting a comment here, on a suggestion, with no expectations as to what the end result shall be. I will start out by stating the obvious, that I am a die-hard Atlantis fan.

However, I understood a few things, so I really did give SGU a chance. I understood that:

1. It’s not fair to the cast and crew that worked hard on SGU to not give it a chance.

2. You all have been successful in the past with SGA/SG-1, so SGU might be good.

It wasn’t. At least not in my opinion. And I like dark and gritty drama.

I am going to be honest with you. I have called you (and some of the other producers) names, and even made fun of you in response to the horrible and disrespectful treatment that fans have had to endure in reading some of the interviews that have been given by producers, and even some of the posts you yourself have authored. I don’t like how it appears as though the fan-base is being used and strung along so that Syfy/MGM/You/Brad/Rob and whoever else can get what you all want out of this SGU situation – until now of course. Now, you want the input you’ve been ignoring since 2008. Many fans told you then that they weren‘t going to like the SGU characters/show upon receiving those descriptions.

You could have made changes then, but you didn’t. Okay, that’s the past. I suppose it is good that you want the feedback now. However, I can’t be sure about your claim that SGU will “magically“ meet hopes for the second half of season one. I’ll tell you why: Just a few short months ago you, Mr. Mallozzi, were telling us that if we wanted anything about SGU to change then we were in for a long haul, and would be scratching out eyes out at how much more offensive/distasteful things would become. I understand that perhaps you have changed your mind about considering fan input, but has the second half of this season changed since your rant in October 2009? Are we not going to be clawing our eyes out, then?

I know that SGU has fans. I know that there are people that are genuinely happy with the show. I’m fine with that. I, however, am still not fine with you and some of the other producers saying some of the things that you have said to and about fans, SGU vs. SGA/SG-1, and the SGA/SG-1 casts in comparison to the cast of SGU and the whole SGU “experience”. You cancel Atlantis for whatever reason (it wasn’t ratings), and then slap many long-time fans in the face with SGU, then insult fans when they don’t like it and tell them that they are only an online cry-baby minority, then tell them that the show is not going to change – it’ll get worse, then ask them to keep watching when the ratings start to slide, and now – you tell us that SGU is not going to get worse but better. And, to add injury to all of the insults, the Atlantis movie isn’t going to happen after we were promised that it would! Please understand if I don’t know what to think. I know that I am only one person, but I am not alone in having my doubts about any “promises“ that come from you all. Stargate fans are not stupid, you know. And, many of us are only loyal to a point.

I’m not going to forget my show. Yes, I called Atlantis my show. And that’s a good thing. I’ll tell you why: Have you ever mentioned a show and then someone immediately says “Oh, that’s my show!” and that they love it? You know what they mean by that. You know that they are saying that they like that show above all others on the air. You know that they are saying that that show is the one they’ll stay home and watch on Friday nights – live. You know that that’s the show that they own the DVDs to. You know that that’s the show that they recommend to their friends and family members. The list goes on. When people say “That’s my show” they are saying that they have a stake in it, which means that they actually support it and give a damn about what happens to/with it. This, in turn, equals money and support for you. So, yes, STARGATE ATLANTIS is MY show. And you and/or someone killed my show without even giving it the ending (by tying up loose ends) that it deserved. You all didn’t hate the “sense of ownership” when fans were watching Atlantis, and buying the DVDs, books, and other merchandise, and going to conventions, etc. Why hate it now?

It seems as though you all will not even so much as speak the name of Atlantis as way to get back at the fans that are still upset (and rightly so) about its premature end. You’ve practically disowned it. Someone else here said that we’ll forgive you. I agree with that statement if, and only if, you all find a way to make it up to the fans that have supported you for years. An SGA movie would go a long way in doing that. You could work something out with Jason Momoa in regard to his schedule if you wanted to. It’s been done in movie-making before.

And I’ll be honest with you again, it would be a lot easier to give SGU the plethora of chances that it needs from me to possibly hook me if Atlantis were still on the air, or if an Atlantis movie were actually in production right now. That way it wouldn’t feel like I’m watching the show that killed Atlantis every time I give it another chance and then end up disappointed. People still miss Atlantis. Not just me. The SGA/SG-1 fanbase is larger than that of this single, new show. I hope someone in the decision-making department understands that. I sometimes go to the forums at Gateworld, and people are still talking about and lamenting over what could have been for their beloved Atlantis. I know that it’s time to move on, but you all haven’t given SGA fans the closure that SG-1 received. It’s like reading a 1000 page book that has the last 200 pages missing. Someone could say just turn the page and move on, but one might say that they wished they could, just hand over the other 200 pages to end it.

There are people that miss the Wraith, the chance to explore the city, the chance to know more about the galaxy, the team – you name it! Why kill something before its time? SG-1 ran for 10 years and got 2 movies, so it’s not so bad with SG-1. I’d like to see Revolutions, but if it’s not made – okay. Continuum is not a bad ending. It’s pretty good. However, Atlantis was gutted and left for dead while there were still things that needed to be done with that show/cast. Why?

I know that I am hammering my points into the ground, but this is the only comment that I plan on posting here, so bear with me.

I am almost sorry that I ever watched Atlantis and fell for that show because of how badly all of this has turned out. I have never experience such disappointment before. I just can’t understand why you all would do this to your fans. I know that you want suggestions on how to improve SGU, but I’ll leave that to the other 200+ comments that you’ve received on the subject. People that actually like SGU might do better in telling you how to improve “their show”.

I will fully understand if you either decide to chop this post up and then use condescending references toward the remaining, select, pieces in your next blog-post, or do not allow it to pass through your approval queue altogether. You will prove a point either way. It is up to you as to which point it shall be.

Thank you,

Atlantis4Life

_____________________________________________________________

You'll see that I addressed that comment about the SGU fanbase being bigger.   I just had to say something.  We'll see what happens next.  Gotta run now.  But I'll be back later.

                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

classicgatefan
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

classicgatefan
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by Overmind One
Thanks.  And, I like your comments too.  You’re better than I am at being nice over there.  That’s good if you’re going to keep subitting comments.   I just couldn’t muster the patience to write something in a nice way like you did.  It probably would have been better if I did.  But, I just sat down and typed what I thought, as I thought it (never the best way to be eloquent).  

I expected the minions to show up in droves.  I hit submit and thought to myself “The minions are coming.”  However, that didn’t happen, except for maybe one.  There’s always going to be at least one quack-wacko from up yonder or down under, touretting off their one word responses.  They can’t help it.  

I can deal with that.  It was worth it to post my comment.  A few of the people over there seem alright.  One of the alright ones seemed to think that I was blaming Mr. Mallozzi for everything.  I wasn’t.  I know he (alone) didn’t kill Atlantis.  The decision to ditch Atlantis was bigger than him.  Although, he is one of the reasons (and, in turn, largely responsible for) why I wasn’t happy with the last 2 seasons (especially the last one).  It really is a mess like Leno/Conan.  TPTB really need to get their game-plans together.  

I just read Mr. Mallozzi’s last blog-post.  You know, I already knew, but I’m starting to get it.  They don’t care.  All he really did was to defend SGU against the top five complaints against it.  And that “ShepKett and Muppet” line?  I knew the snark would shine through at some point.  Okay, so ALL we’re supposed to care about on the Destiny are these characters’ many flaws and personal angst, but we weren’t supposed to care about the SGA team’s personal lives at all?  I think the point people were trying to make to him (and he quite possibly missed it) is that there’s such a thing as balance.  There were lots of good friendships and teamwork on SGA/1, but not enough character driven moments based on their personal lives.  On SGU, there’s just waaaay too much of how these charactes’ personal lives are a mess and how they use sex and silliness to  - I don’t know - cover up the pain or whatever angle it is they’re going for???

Then there were his other - I guess we’ll call them explanations.  Okay, so... The stones are a good thing because these characters need to step off of the ship and get fresh air?  Going through the gate and/or exploring the ship/galaxy every week is “tiresome”?  The sand swirl is one of his examples of how “we’ve been pretty good about keeping our alien landscapes alien-looking and our aliens, well, alien-looking as well”  And, of course, everything will be delightfully great in April when the show returns.  Whatever.  I’m not even going to go over it all.  There’s no talking to these guys.

But that’s not stopping the suggestions.  I looked at this suggestion  “Personally, I would like to see a more international cast placed on board Destiny” and thought "Okay.  That completes it.  If they make all of these changes, we really will have Atlantis on a ship."
 

Mr. Mallozzi then ends his blog-post by telling everybody that if we watch all of the episodes again, especially on DVD, then we’ll probably change our minds about the show?  What?

I’m glad that he got called on it:

“Slowly building up to a compelling narrative is one thing. Asking for suggestions on how to improve your show, only to explain everything away, is quite another. There are obviously some things that aren’t working for your audience. I suggest you fix them.”

I like that you mentioned the truth about BSG’s popularity.  It may have been critically acclaimed as a drama, but that doesn’t mean that it was popular as a science fiction show. Hulu doesn’t even place it under science fiction; it was under action/adventure the last time I checked.  

I just looked at the blog again, and a lady from the military was telling him about the mistakes they’ve made on SGU with the military.  That’s another thing:  With 20 million dollars more “to play with” as Rob Cooper put it, they didn’t have money in the budget for a military expert, a medical expert, and a science expert to help them along?  Their priorities are out of whack.  Yes, they really do need a better game-plan.  I’d prefer a new one (as in a new show) altogether, since Atlantis is over.

I liked the idea of a South African Stargate program, but I think that kind of show would need to be a Sci-Fi Drama, not Sci-Fi Action/Adventure like SG-1 and Atlantis mainly were.  And, these writers don’t do drama (and can barely handle the science stuff with SGU) well at all, so, I think I’d pass on it.  Good idea, though.

Great Job on your posts!  
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Atlantis4Life
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by classicgatefan
classicgatefan wrote
So you like dark, gritty drama? Just because I'm the curious sort, could you explain how SGU could have been written as good dark, gritty drama? Since I myself hate dark drama, I can't come up with any idea as to how it could be done.

Okay, yes.  I do like dark, gritty drama if it's done well.  I think of V (2009) as a dark Sci-Fi Drama, and I like it.  But, the people involved in its making know what they are doing with that sort of thing.  SGU is an attempt at dark, gritty drama, and it's not done well.  I don't really want SGU to become a dark, gritty drama because that's not why I like Stargate.  That's why I've said before that they should just chuck the show and do something else.  This is why I didn't explain to Mr. Mallozzi how he (and others) can make SGU into whatever kind of a drama it is that they're going for.  And, not being rude (please don't take it that way), I'm not interested now.  

Mr. Mallozzi did receive some good suggestions, though.  However, the vast majority of those suggestions would turn the show into Stargate as we've known it (I think it would end up being Atlantis on a ship), and not a dark, gritty drama.

The point people have been trying to make over and over again is that this experiment of sorts isn't working because it's too far away from what we see, know, and love about what makes Stargate, well, Stargate.  You've said that you don't like comedy (I hope I remember this right).  So, if you've been loyal to a franchise for years that never did flat-out comedy, and all of a sudden they started to try to change what you had liked into a full-blown comedy - you'd probably be put off by it.  And, because they weren't used to making comedies and don't have the skill for it, they probably wouldn't bring in comedy fans either.  This is what is happening with SGU.  This is also why I don't like SGU.

classicgatefan wrote
And uhm, forgive me for having no brain today... but you say you want an SGA movie, and you've said earlier you'd like a season 6... and then at the same time you say it's time to move on?
I'm happy to answer your question.  I'll start with a quote from my post at Mr. Mallozzi's blog and then expound upon it:

"I know that it’s time to move on, but you all haven’t given SGA fans the closure that SG-1 received. It’s like reading a 1000 page book that has the last 200 pages missing. Someone could say just turn the page and move on, but one might say that they wished they could, just hand over the other 200 pages to end it."

What I'm saying here is that it's hard to move on when there's no finality to anything.  They haven't said that there definitely is going to be a movie.  They haven't said that there isn't going to be a movie.  So, things are stuck in a no man's land.  Season 5 wasn't a real ending for the show, and it'd be nice to have a proper ending for Atlantis.  A 6th season is the best way to do this, but Mr. Mallozzi has said that this will not happen.  That doesn't stop me from wishing that this weren't the case, but I accept it.  Since this will not be the case, then a movie is the next logical way to go, especially since the fans were promised a movie when the 5th season ended and we were told that it wouldn't be coming back.  

My point is that if we as Atlantis fans are supposed to move on, then don't dangle the possibility of a movie in front of us because that's like dangling the last 200 pages of a 1000 page book infront of someone who's read the first 800 pages and would like to see how the thing ends.  Mr. Mallozzi has talked about how he's written the script for the movie (although I'd prefer someone else) and everything.  He's talked about how good it would be, and how Atlantis has been "relocated", but we're supposed to move on?  Just be straight with the fans was what I was saying.

At one point, they'd even suggested in the past that if we don't watch SGU, then that might put the movies in jeopardy, until they realized that line wasn't working.  Holding the production of a wanted movie hostage as a way to get fans to pay a ransom by watching a mostly unwanted show isn't appealing.  I (for one) am glad that they figured that out.  

Let me know if this helps.  And, when are we going to see you give commenting at Mr. Mallozzi's blog a whirl?  I'd like to see what you have to say.  
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by Overmind One
Overmind One wrote
We are simply being placated. Nothing is different except the strategy...now, he is going to try to explain away the flaws of SGU without fixing them, and the result will be ratings drops the likes of which we did not see in the first half, but "Justice" was a warning shot. In the end, it doesnt matter what Mallozi says or what the shills do. Its all about RATINGS, baby! If they should fall below 1m for any episode, the red alert bells will start clanging and TPTB will be writing memos on yellow or pink paper to the producers.

Exactly!  I knew when he was asking for "suggestions" that it was just a marketing ploy for the show.  Then, he takes the suggestions and throws the most popular ones back at the fans by explaining them away.  It's like I told him, he's treated his fans badly.  And, I have a hard time trusting his "promises" or anything else he says for that matter.  And, I think that the ratings can fall that low.  I don't know if they will.  But, he said the rest of the season would get worse a few months ago, so, we'll see.

Overmind One wrote
I still dont see this pig being allowed to wallow past season 2. But the fall will be fun watching, and my personal satisfaction will be sweet.
I feel the same way.  You buy the candy, and I'll buy the popcorn.  'Cause when this baby crashes, it's gonna be an entertaining show.  
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by Overmind One
Overmind One wrote
LMAO. You are so right. Make your list of candy! I just launched another bird over there...this time, a predatory bird with teeth. I wonder how far he will let me go before disapproving the posts? Here it is in the queue:

LOL, dude.  Let me know what kind of popcorn you like too.  I saw that reply thought it was probably one of Mr. Mallozzi's friends posting something to try and help him sell the second half of season 2.  Great reply, though.  The facts are on your side, and they know it.  I wouldn't be surprised if this show wasn't losing money.  
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Atlantis4Life
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by Overmind One
Overmind One wrote
But to change from one genre to another? WTF. Imagine Atlantis done in Austin Powers style, complete with a "Dr Evil" villain and his "Mini Me" sidekick and a penis shaped spaceship. You get the idea.
Exactly!  LMAO.  That's what they've done, and it's ridiculous.  And, no one would like it.


__________________________________________________________________

11:20pm update


I just checked the blog, and Mr. Mallozzi "answered" you twice, Kobe:

"Overmind One writes: “I thought that the entire season was already filmed, edited, and “in the can”. If that is true, then you are just HOPING that we will be delighted.”

Answer: Of course nothing is a certainty, especially when it comes to fandom, but I base my prediction on the fact that many of the issues fans have expressed and the suggestions they have made will be addressed in the back of season one – and this has nothing to do with last minute rewrites and everything to do with the episodes that fill the #11-#20 slots.  The stones for instance.  Many have complained about the use of the stones being used for personal visits, hoping to see that aspect of the show minimized, while suggesting other depictions of the stone tech (SF complications, using them to bring experts to the ship, etc.).  Well, as it turns out, in the back half of season one use of the stones for personal visits will be minimized and the stone tech will be explored in other ways (SF complications, using them to bring experts to the ship, etc.).  Again, you can’t please all of the people all of the time but, at least in the case of those complaining about the use of the stones, a great number of them will be very pleased with what we have in store for them come April."


"Overmind One writes: “Thing is, the declining ratings and negative commentary all over the internet has prompted them to ASK US what we really want.”

Answer: Actually, no.  Sorry to disappoint.  If I was trying to curry favor with mass fandom, I’d be cross-posting this survey on the innumerable other forums out there.  Instead, I chose to ask fans here on this blog because I’m familiar with most of them and know that they’ll provide a fair assessment of their likes and dislikes in a well presented and respectful manner.  I’ve asked because I’d like to know what’s been working for them, what hasn’t been working for them, why, and then present some insight into the reasons we’ve chosen to pursue certain creative avenues in addition to hinting at the ways some of their concerns may be addressed when SGU returns with all new episodes in April."



I've only read the mailbag, and will read the rest of it tomorrow.  I'm too tired to tackle it right now.  But, I have a few of parting comments.

a) I actually believe (in a way) his second response.  He's made it obvious that they're not that interested in changing things because of how he's only explained away the top 5 complaints.  They haven't really taken fan input seriously since before the beginning of the show, so I don't expect much from them now.  No, it's just another "Keep watching..." ploy for the gullible.

b) I just thought this answer was funny because of how vague it was:

"Thornyrose also writes: “And ignoring that, why would the PTB on Earth permit the breech of security by alloiwing the exiles to communicate with loved ones? It makes for drama moments but doesn’t make sense from the show history. Or are you finally going to reveal the Stargates to the people of the SG universe Earth?”

Answer: Two issues that look to be addressed down the line."


I don't know if that means down the line as in season 2, or down the line as in the second half of this season.  My guess is the former not the latter, otherwise he'd be crowing about it.


He also said:

"There’s a difference between gathering feedback and taking dictation."

I'd say that there's a difference between gathering feedback and just placating fans as a way to string them along to get the ratings/DVD sales that you want.  


And, last, but not least, there is his answer on the SGA/1 auction in relation to the possible movies:

"Dodoalda writes: "2) Now, when some of SG props are selling by e-bay, what you will do, if tese props are necessary for filming third SG-1 movie or first SGA movie? Make new ones?"

2) MGM had literally thousands of props gathering dust so, rather than keep them in storage indefinitely, they’ve elected to finally make most of those items available to fans.  As for potentially selling anything we may need in the future – I liken it to the show’s visual effects which have improved dramatically over time.  I’d rather have a newer, cooler version than an older used one."


See what I mean?  Still no concrete answers.  That goes to my answer to classicgatefan.  He hints at how it will be "cooler" to have new stuff for the movies, but doesn't say that there will be new stuff for the movies because there actually will be movies.  They are "potentially" selling some things that "may" be needed for the future.  He didn't even say "may be needed for the movies", just the "future".  Uh, Okay??... I'm going to bed.  
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Spaceman XIII
In reply to this post by Atlantis4Life
Atlantis4Life wrote

"Thornyrose also writes: “And ignoring that, why would the PTB on Earth permit the breech of security by alloiwing the exiles to communicate with loved ones? It makes for drama moments but doesn’t make sense from the show history. Or are you finally going to reveal the Stargates to the people of the SG universe Earth?”

Answer: Two issues that look to be addressed down the line."
What a bunch of BS.

The real question is why were there even such "issues" in the first place?

A single check against common sense would have prevented such moronic stone plot lines. Which moron decided to film this? And which idiot approved it? It's like the whole show is written by some emotional BIMBO with IQ below 90.

Season 1 has already been filmed, so when he say "down the line" it means season 2.

All they can do now for the rest of S1 is remove some stone scenes, replace them with useless leftover scenes from the backroom, then pretend it is some "major improvement".
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

US06154
In reply to this post by Atlantis4Life
"MGM had literally thousands of props gathering dust so, rather than keep them in storage indefinitely, they’ve elected to finally make most of those items available to fans."

"Make them available to Fans"? it sounds like they were giving the props away, through the kindness of their hearts. Bah, it's more like the Fucking DVD sales aren't going anywhere, Let's sell everything plus the kitchen sink, in a "going out of business" sale.

The "Indefinitely" is actually a Freudian slip. They have absolutely no idea when they'll get around to it (Making the Movies), if ever. Lousy bastards!! So sell all the "Scratch, Dented and Broken crap" because "look, a broken prop. Sheppard stumbled and fell against that, and it's got his ass print on it. Some nutcase fan might want to sleep with that. Tag it (In his best imitation of Dr. Evil) One Million Dollars.. Bwahahahahaha"
Original comment posted, analyzed and commented at SGUSucks.com. The One, and the only True Forum where we agree that SGU.. Just Sucks
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Re: Get over to Joey's blog ASAP! He is asking what people dislike, and allowing the messages!

Overmind One
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