Why I like SGU

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Why I like SGU

The Mighty 6 Platoon
Well having had a discussion about your forum on Gateworld I though it only fair that someone who like’s sgu make a little counter argument and put forward our position. I am a long time fan of stargate, enjoyed it for the last 10 years, I loved sg1, I liked sga. However as these shows pottered around doing their thing other shows like the Shield. The Wire and the Sopranos were doing something new, with dark arc based shows focused very much on characters. I looked at these shows and thought, I wish they’d do something like that with SGU, and low and behold they did. So I am enjoying SGU, based on the numbers and discussions with people at Gateworld it seems a fair few other people do as well. Nevertheless as with all shows not everyone’s happy, certainly not with this new direction, I understand that not everyone will like a dark drama and character focused take on Stargate.

I’m sorry that you don’t but this is a no win situation, if any new stargate had carried on in the vein of the last 15 seasons then I and other fans like me would have drifted away, unhappy that stargate was not evolving. Either way the sad fact is that tptb would loose fans whatever route they took. I’m sorry that has to happen but no fan has greater rights to the series than another and tptb went with the show they wanted to make. I wish we live in a happy perfect world where sg1, sga and sgu could run side by side and everyone could have the show they wanted, but alas that can’t happen. In the end my point is that I can understand, accept and respect that some fans will not like SGU, I just wish that people here would have the same courtesy for those of us that do like sgu.
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Re: Why I like SGU

This Site blows
Way to tell these fools!
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Re: Why I like SGU

alien0-2
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Re: Why I like SGU

Will
In reply to this post by The Mighty 6 Platoon
Hi The Mighty 6 platoon, thanks for taking the time to post your concerns here.

I can't speak for other contributors to these forums, since I am merely a disgruntled Stargate fan who stumbled across this place and decided to add my $0.02, but I personally fully recognise that SGU will appeal to a certain audience and I respect that there will be some fans out there who enjoy the show. I welcome a sensible discussion about SGU with fans such as yourself. Hopefully we can prevent this thread from degenerating into a mudslinging contest.

I appreciate that you probably have better things to do than read all the threads on this forum so you may not have noticed that a lot of posters here are simply angry fans who feel they were misled and mistreated by the Stargate producers and want to vent and discuss with like minded individuals. Of course there have been some posts insulting people who like SGU - there are a lot of angry fans here after all, and anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering, etc etc. Similarly I'm fully aware that over in your thread on gateworld you have already labelled all contributors to this site as nutjobs/insane/etc. But the important discussions are not those about taste, but those about WHY fans are so "up in arms" about SGU.

Let me sum up my Stargate experience to you.

I've been a fan of Stargate since the original movie. Introduced dozens of friends and family to the show. My wife and kids and I tuned in eagerly each week. Loved SG1, enjoyed Atlantis, was kinda gutted when SG1 got cancelled as I felt the show had plenty more to offer, but I thought 10 seasons was a pretty good innings for any show, and having been promised 2-3 feature length movies per year, couldn't really complain. Was kinda surprised when Atlantis was suddenly given the axe, but if the show was losing the studio money, can't really blame them.

But anyway, that was all ok, because we were promised a whole new Stargate series to come which would "keep the action, adventure and sense of humor", "follow a team of explorers on a mission in a new galaxy as they encounter new races, enemies and adventures", "be lead by a veteran officer, Colonel Everett Young, described as like the Jack O'Neill of ten years ago", and so on. The impression was given that SGU would be like going back to the beginning again, with a team stranded in a new galaxy, isolated from all our advanced tech and having to explore, make new friends, meet new enemies, etc etc.

So we tuned in eagerly to the SGU pilot, only to find ourselves rather disappointed. Realised quickly this wasn't a show kids could watch, so unfortunately they have had to say goodbye to Stargate. The wife watched a few episodes then got too bored and refuses to watch it further. Personally, I've stuck it out for the full 10 episodes but I have to say that, for me, it was a case of suffering through them in the hope that at some point, something "Stargatesque" might happen. It was painful. Having spoken to friends and family who are also SG fans, I've yet to find one who enjoys SGU. But that's a question of taste, and if the producers have decided they want to abandon their core fanbase and move the franchise to a completely different demographic, that's their right. However, we as fans do have the right to be annoyed and frustrated, and to let the producers know how we feel. Why? Because:

1) We were completely misled in the run up to SGU. We were told that the show was going to maintain the same action, adventure and humor as previous series, but so far we've seen very little action, no real adventure, and none of the classic SG humor. We were told that "the unique feature of SGU is that it will be set entirely in space" but so far half the time has been spent on Earth dealing with clichéd girlfriend/boyfriend/family problems. We were told that Young was going to be like O'Neill in SG1's first season. He's nothing like him. We were told that the crew would be a "team of explorers", that they'd be "on a mission to visit all the previously seeded stargates", that they'd "encounter new races, enemies and adventures"; we're half a season in, and none of this has materialised. Were we told this just to get us to tune in? How many people would have tuned in for the pilot if they'd told the truth about what SGU was and wasn't?

2) If something carries a recognised brand name, you expect it to at least maintain SOME relevance to the features that name has come to represent. Star Trek DS9 was very different to TNG (much more drama based) but it still "felt" like a Star Trek show. Voyager was different again, but again, it still felt like it belonged in the same franchise. The characters still held to the same basic precepts. Stargate:Universe is just so far removed, not only from Stargate, but from science fiction in general, that it just feels that the Stargate name has only been used as a ruse to get people to watch this "new concept" because they're already fans of the franchise. Meanwhile SGU seems to have been designed to be as "un-stargate" as possible. They've replaced every element of the previous shows with its exact opposite. I thought the idea was to bring new fans into the fold, not abandon your existing fanbase and replace it with viewers of opposite taste (yes, I realise there is going to be some overlap, such as yourself). To fans loyal to the franchise, this abandonment is a real slap in the face. Not a nice way to say "thanks for supporting our show for the past 12 years". Loyalty is supposed to work both ways.

3) All the meaningless sex scenes/gore etc. I don't mind sex/gore when they add to the story, but in SGU they really haven't. It looks like they've just been thrown in to make a point that the show has "become more adult". But all it does is unnecessarily alienate swathes of potential viewers i.e. kids, the elderly, the squeamish, etc.

4) The complete lack of realism. I wholeheartily dispute the assertion that SGU is more "realistic" than SG1. What exactly was "unrealistic" about SG1? Yeah, ok, aliens spoke our language (which I really wish they'd explained through some Goa'uld translation device, but anyway), and some of the time travel storylines in the later seasons got a bit wacky, but that's as far as the unrealism goes. SG1 had airforce consultants reading every script to ensure the airforce was accurately represented, that the characters behaved as real airforce characters would; heck, they even brought in the real US chief of staff once. SGU for me has been entirely unconvincing so far. You think the real military would let people go have sex with their loved ones in someone else's body (i.e. rape) with no repercussions? That they'd let youngsters go out clubbing and get plastered while bodyswapped to cheer them up from being sad and lonely on the Destiny, again with no repercussions....and to hell with the gigantic security risk? That they'd allow the Destiny crew to tell their relatives all about the Stargate programme after having gone to such extreme lengths in the past to keep it classified? That if your spouse was missing in action somewhere then a random person turned up at the door claiming to be them in someone else's body, you'd be like "oh, ok then" and carry on as normal? That's meant to be "realistic"? I could go on...and all the while we get told that we "can't handle SGU because it's more realistic."

5) The additiude of the show's creators and the effect of all this on the Stargate franchise. The view of the creators thus far seems to be that anyone who doesn't like SGU is obviously a juvenile who likes "immature" shows like SG1/SGA and is clearly not intellectually sophisticated enough to enjoy a deeper, more meaningful, more realistic show like SGU. To add insult to injury, the producers don't seem to be taking criticism at all seriously and merely respond with insults. Meanwhile the ratings for SGU just keep plummeting, and all we hear are excuses like "oh it's because of the timeslot", "oh everyone suddenly decided Monk was better", "oh its just that people DVR it instead" and so on. The producers act like SG1/SGA were failures and that SGU is their chance to "get it right". Obviously shows need to evolve, but seriously, show your fans some modicum of respect rather than insulting them for enjoying what you've been producing for 15 seasons.

I for one am genuinely worried about what this is going to do to the Stargate franchise. Now that all the resources have been poured into the SGU gamble, if SGU gets cancelled (and if the plummeting viewership is anything to go by, it needs some major, major reworking if it's going to survive season 2) it's pretty much game over for the franchise for a long time. What was once arguably the greatest sci-fi franchise of all time fizzles out on a low, depressing note, as "the show that tried to copy other shows and failed". I don't think any of us want that.

So there we are. A summary of what led me to this site and got me posting here. I could post more...but this post is already 5 times the length I'd intended.

We're both Stargate fans and we both want what is best for the franchise and the viewers. I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on all the above, when you have time.

Regards

Will
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Re: Why I like SGU

alien0-2
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Re: Why I like SGU

GetMallozziFired
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Re: Why I like SGU

The Mighty 6 Platoon
The posts like the one immediately above this one are why we one Gateworld label you lot nutters, because while there might be some of you capable of sane arguments, there are equal numbers of people claiming that it is “their” franchise and they have more right to it that anyone else. I’m able to have plenty of pleasant conversations with a larger number of different stargate fans on Gateworld who have a wide variety of opinions, some like sgu, some don’t, most of us get along because we respect each others opinions, even if we differ. I’ve been a fan of stargate for over 10 years, I know a lot of other long time fans both at Gateworld and outside it who like SGU so it’s not as if there’s a sudden influx of people “stealing” your franchise (which doesn’t belong to you any way).  Frankly, while some of you might want to have an intelligent debate with people who are pro sgu, when your forum is full of frothing at the mouth loonies who cant respect anyone’s dissenting opinion, and one of your largest threads is one where you insult SGU fans and say they’re all idiots with IQ’s less than 90, it isn’t gonna happen anytime soon.
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Re: Why I like SGU

Will
I haven't seen this site "full of frothing at the mouth loonies" - sure, like I said in my post above, there are upset people here, and although some insulting things get said in anger, a lot of the posters here have legitimate points that are, for the most part, well thought out and worthy of discussion.

Before you label this entire community as loonies based on the title of a single thread created by one user (a thread that you may not have noticed was dominated by posts trying to CALM the tone and ENCOURAGE intelligent discussion), you may have noticed that coinciding shortly after your group of fans on Gateworld discovered this site, a user registered with the name "this site blows" and posted on numerous threads calling the users of this site "fools", "idiots with an iq a quarter of our age", "mentally disabled" and telling us to "go to hell". Not that I particularly mind it; like I said, there are some strong feelings surrounding this issue on both sides, so things are going to be said in anger. But don't act as if those who dislike SGU are the only ones preventing "intelligent debate". I saw a thread earlier on gateworld where it was claimed that users of this site were plotting the rape and murder of SGU actors/actresses in order to get the show cancelled. I mean come on, seriously? Claiming we are rapists and murderers is perhaps a little more insulting than claiming SGU fans have an IQ <90. Not that either assertion contributes much to meaningful discussion. For the most part, we're just a bunch of Stargate fans who are disappointed with the show and, perhaps more importantly, upset by the attitude of its producers.

I don't think anybody here is claiming to "own the franchise". Like I specifically said in my previous post, if the owners want to change the direction of the franchise, that is their right. What I think people are getting at is that loyalty is a two way thing, and having loyally supported a franchise for a very long time, a fan might expect some level of loyalty/respect from tptb in that franchise. My previous post goes into quite some detail about why I believe the show's producers have been anything but respectful to their existing fanbase.

So this discussion could go two ways from here. We can focus on "who started it" and who insulted who first and who's an idiot and who's a moron and so on, or we can have what you (apparently) came here for, which is to debate our relative opinions on the rights and wrongs of Stargate Universe. The choice is yours. So like I said in my previous post, let's try to spark some intelligent debate about this. I've already stated that I respect your opinion and have given you my take on things. Now it's your turn to add to the discussion, if you want to. Who knows, if you argue your case well enough, maybe you'll even convince some of us the show isn't as bad as all that. Let's find out :)
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Re: Why I like SGU

alien0-2
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Re: Why I like SGU

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by Will
Thank you.  This is the debate I was talking about.  When I came to this site for the first time, I was upset and needed to vent too.  I was so tired of the arguments that I was reading from pro-sgu people (and some weren't even arguments) that I made a list.  Was it nice? No, but neither were a lot of the things pro-sgu people were saying.  And I really did quote things that they were saying.  I exaggerated some of my representations, but they were reflecting what people were really saying too.

In the beginning I thought (like Will said) that SGU might fill the void left by SGA, but all that happened was that I got really ticked that my favorite show was cancelled for what SGU has come to represent...I have calmed down about it, but I'm still not happy.

l have since decided that the best way to voice my disappointment in the franchise is to do something productive (like write/email TPTB, stop watching SGU) and to debate and discuss how things have gone with the franchise.  I welcome Mighty Platoon 6 to do the same, as well as anybody else that wants to.

For the record:  Atlantis was not cancelled because it was losing money.  It was still making money for the franchise.  Ratings weren't the reason either, TPTB have admitted this much.  The president of Syfy said the producers cancelled the show because they didn't want to do it anymore.  Brad wright said that he cancelled the show on a coin toss, then said he didn't when fans got mad at that.  Joe Flanigan said that he couldn't get a straight answer as to exactly why the show was cancelled because he knew that they were making money and had won a viewer's choice award.  I think that SGA could have had even more success if TPTB had handled the show better.  

Perhaps it doesn't matter now.  SGA might permanently be a thing of the past now, and I'm dealing with that.
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Why I like SGU

stonelesscutter
In reply to this post by Will
Couldn't agree with you more on all the points you make.
Especially number 4.
Glad you took the time and had the clearmindedness to put your opinions 'on paper'.
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Re: Why I like SGU

Tanith
This post was updated on .
In reply to this post by The Mighty 6 Platoon
I'll give my 2 cents (even though ive been bashed on this forum thus far). I respect peoples opinions even if they differ from my own but I incredibly dislike when those who like SGU are classed as being "fanboys", "idiots", "kids" etc simply because they like it. Its one thing to give a negative opinion but there's no need for petty insults. When you outright insult something someone else likes that only leads to an argument (Same one that has been repeated time & time again on the comments of Gateworld articles).

You may not get many people who like SGU on here because of the name that was chosen for the site. The homepage of this site to some is almost laughable as it gives the impression that the people on here are just on a futile mission to get SGU cancelled.

Anyway my opinion on SGU:
Like a lot of people on here I was annoyed when Atlantis was cancelled and so I wasn't going to give SGU a proper chance, but the Comic Con trailer for SGU sparked my interest.

In the pilot the only thing I had an issue with really was the use of flashbacks and I seriously hoped that they weren't going to be a regular occurrence (Glad they weren't). I went in and made a point to not compare it to its predecessors and because I didn't I enjoyed it more. I even didn't mind some of the scenes on Earth but they were a little to long at times and I just wanted to get back to what was happening on the Destiny.

To me SGU is the kind of show that starts off slow to introduce the characters, convey the situation there in, how the characters are dealing with it etc and then it slowly picks up the pace to build up to something. Its not perfect (what show is 10 episodes in) but there's a lot of potential and I personally believe that the 2nd half of season 1 will be a lot better than the 1st.




Even I would admit that David Blue made a big claim (Yes I follow him on Twitter). But in my opinion he could be right, everything ive read about 'Space' (The next episode that will air in April) suggests that it will be a good episode.
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Re: Why I like SGU

US06154
In reply to this post by stonelesscutter
Hi, it's me, third nutjob from the Left. In the Beginning, we, the labeled and card carrying haters of SGU, DID put forward our case quite eloquently, without venting.  The problem was, petty minded zealots, who wanted to pass off as mature, sophisticated individuals, who recognized  a fine work of art (when there was none), started bad mouthing us as Whiners.

We brought forth evidence that SGA was cancelled for no good reason. Unfortunately this “Dark and Gritty” bollox was something that the producers threw out to the “New Audience”, saying that the show had matured. The show had NOT matured, instead, they arbitrarily threw in Sex, long and boring “character Development arcs” and a bunch of pebbles (which they found in the studio parking lot C ) as A story lines. They also added Stargate into the title to confuse, confound and mislead the Fanbase Audience. Then Gateworld decides to censor anything said against SGU.

We weren’t always this hostile. We could have co-existed, if people like Tanith, Darkelfa, Orion Coran and a few others decided to live and let live. But anything intelligent we came up was shot down as disgruntled Whiners. Heck, there was even a possibility that we would have kept watching the show (mind you, that doesn’t still mean we like it). But once the battle lines were drawn, I’d rather see (My opinion and no one else’s) the Stargate Franchise go down in blazing flames, and sending SGU into the annals of History as the Suckfest show that  burned the franchise. Atlantis maybe dead, But Long Live Atlantis!
 
Original comment posted, analyzed and commented at SGUSucks.com. The One, and the only True Forum where we agree that SGU.. Just Sucks
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Re: Why I like SGU

stonelesscutter
In reply to this post by Tanith
I don't want to get into another argument. But I just want to give my opinion...

TWITTER SUCKS!!!

:)
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Re: Why I like SGU

stonelesscutter
In reply to this post by US06154
Dear USO,
You may have misunderstood my intention.
I'm in the same boat you're in.
And Will is also in the same boat.
I don't care if someone throws shit at SGU or conveys his negative opinion in more carefully chosen words.
In the end, we're all pissed off for the same reasons.
I was just responding to Will because I like what he wrote down. It's like reading something I wrote myself, only I didn't write it (at least not here).
I can totally understand the hostility.
I'm not posting on this site because I love SGU ;)
I'm here because SGU pissed me off.
And I'm a dedicated SG1 fan. (SGA is alright as well)
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Re: Why I like SGU

Canceltheturkey
In reply to this post by The Mighty 6 Platoon
Starting from the premise that being branded a "hater" on "other sites" because I think the SG franchise has gone nuts along with every other professional reviewer out there, I have the the right to call those trolls that show up here looking for an anonymous online argument pretty well anything I want. Darren and David aren't here to bounce posts and yank your ass out of the fire so you'll continue to look good on their meet & greet SG vanity site.

A show that "started off slow" shouldn't be asking 80 friggin dollars for a disc of that half season then should it? Do I think "I own the show". No, that's why I walked. If I actually owned the show I'd fire the sorry ass of almost everyone connected with it. The arrogance of TPTB to tell me I'm supposed to watch this television dogshit makes me want to show up at the next fan convention and serve up such adjective in their face. I say break up the conventions that are booking SGU in the lineup.

I could write essays on the faults of SGA but on the whole it was great sci fi entertainment that I can watch over and over again and I cut it some slack for five years. I couldn't say the same for 2 episodes of SGU. Which is sad because there's a few actors that are great (and by that I don't mean the Chinese Space Lesbians). Like the SGU guy at youtube says, it's just total crap.

I can't take one minute straight of this SGU pigslop without wanting to throw something at my flatscreen so I choose not to do so anymore. My last download was ep5 which is when I figured it just isn't worth the effort. No one's going to watch that crap a second time. Like the man says, "I'LL NEVER GET THOSE WASTED HOURS OF MY LIFE BACK".

Currently watching the original Outer Limits on disc. Like Twilight zone, dated but far more competent and entertaining. Made for adults in the sixties.
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Re: Why I like SGU

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by Tanith
I can appreciate your comments, Tanith.  However, I've said before that I cannot and will not support SGU for as long as it lasts.  Your arguments may have persuaded me a few months ago, but not now.  The creators/producers/writers of SGU have been insulting and unprofessional about their darling little baby.  They have picked fights with well-respected critics and called loyal fans "morons" and "idiot" while still somehow deluding themselves into thinking that this kind of treatment will cause fans to continue to watch their new show.  They have insulted not only their previous work (SG-1 and Atlantis), but they have insulted those casts as well, all the while defending fictitious characters from SGU that have no feelings like the real live SG-1 and Atlantis actors do.  I'm sorry - no - I'm not sorry; I can't support SGU after they cancelled my favorite show, then lied about it, and then dumped this disaster on me like I'm actually going to find it a suitable replacement for Atlantis.  No, no, no!!  I can't do it!!  I won't.

The only thing they can do to smooth things over with me (as a fan) is to make a good Atlantis movie and/or bring back Atlantis as a show (Keller-free & with better writing).  

Here's how I see the future spin happening in order to string along the still-on-the-fence fans:

After episodes 11-13 air and they suck, then it will be:

Just you wait!  Episodes 14-16 will be INCREDIBLE.  They'll just BLOW YOUR MIND!  

Then when episodes 14-16 suck, it will be:

Oh no, don't go away! Hold on!  You haven't seen episodes 17-18!  They're gonna ROCK YOUR WORLD!!

Then when episodes 17-18 suck, it will be:

*TPTB trip the remaining audience as they all make a mad rush for the door, and then hog-tie them with these fresh new lies*  Hey now, where did you think you were going?  The 2 part finale is coming up, and it going to be EPIC!!  YOU HAVE TO WATCH IT!  YOU JUST HAVE TO!!  IT'S GONNA BE GREAT!!  IT'S "GOLDEN" SG-1!!!!

Then, there will no doubt be a Syfy press release saying something along the lines of:

"The First Season of SGU has its BEST YEAR EVER!!!"

Okay. Stop.  You're not fooling anybody here.  We understand what's happening.  Please, just give us some credit.  I can understand David Blue doing what he has to do.  SGU is his bread and butter.  I'm just not falling for it.  I don't think anyone else here is falling for it either.

I still welcome you to express your opinions though.

                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Why I like SGU

Atlantis4Life
In reply to this post by US06154
Atlantis maybe dead, But Long Live Atlantis!

Here-here!!!  Cheers to that statement!!!
                                                      Bring Atlantis Back!!!   

                                           
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Re: Why I like SGU

Joelist
So Tanith, why exactly is GateWorld now going around removing posts critical of SGU from the front page articles? And don't deny it  - it is a fact.

Also don't try and claim the posts were somehow obscene or inappropriate, interestingly they left the more rabid ones and killed the longer ones that elaborated on the problems with SGU. The only logical reason to do that is to paint a picture of SGU critics as rabid and unreasoning.
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Re: Why I like SGU

classicgatefan
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